The Escape with Martha Kartaoui

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:00:00

trigger warning, the Resilience Project provides an open space for people to share their personal experiences. Some content in this podcast may include topics that you may find difficult, the listeners discretion is advised.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:00:19

Hello friends, welcome to radical resilience, a weekly show where I Blair Kaplan Venables have inspirational conversations with people who have survived life's most challenging times. We all have the ability to be resilient and bounce forward from a difficult experience. And these conversations prove just that, get ready to dive into these life changing moments, while strengthening your resilience muscle and getting raw and real.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:00:50

Welcome back to another episode of radical resilience. It's me, Blair, Kaplan. Venables and I have such a fascinating guest. I met her through social media, surprise, surprise, because you know how I feel about social media. And when we connected, there was just this really natural connection. Her personality is just so bubbly and uplifting, and her story made my jaw drop. So I am so excited for you to meet my friend, Martha. So Martha is actually going to be in our second book. She has quite the story. And I'm honored that she's here today. So she's a Certified Life and Health Coach, and a spiritual mentor. And she is a licensed therapeutic massage therapist for last 16 years, which like, going to get a massage is one of my favorite things to do. favorite things to do. So that's awesome. I didn't know that about you. But she has this very. She had to be very resilient. And she still does. She was born and grew up in a dangerous religious cult. And at the age of 25, she escaped. And so we're going to talk about that today. So welcome to the microphone, Martha.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:02:06

Hello, Blair. It's so nice to be here. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:02:11

Yeah, and thanks for coming on. I mean, I can't imagine this is something I mean, going through any challenges is hard to talk about. And I can't even imagine what this is like for you. So why don't you share your story?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:02:26

Yeah, um, so it's taken me a lot of years to find my voice, as you can imagine. So I have been out of the call now for 19 years. And it's been very much of a healing journey. With a lot of pain, a lot of joy, a lot of light, a lot of downs. It's, it's been, it's been a journey and a process. So as Blair said, I was born into a religious cult where, you know, everything was manipulated and controlled by one person, the leader, and our lives were not our own. And this led to every kind of abuse you could think of, from spiritual, to physical to sexual, to everything, it was just, it was a bad, it was a bad experience. But with all of that being said, you know, we can't control the trauma and the experiences that we have, but we do get the chance to control how we react from them. And that's my true resilience story, right is how I've turned this life of trauma and pain of sexual abuse of physical abuse of starvation of, of all of the horrible things that happened to me in those first 25 years and how I've turned them into trying to bring others hope and bring others joy and show up people that there's light and life after trauma. So that's that's kind of an acorn version of my story. Oh,

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:04:13

yes. Well, I'm sorry, you went through that. And thank you so much for sharing. Are you able to say what culture was that you were in if you're comfortable with that?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:04:25

So I've been told not to because I still have a sister in it. So it there's just, you know, I I'm just I'm careful with but it was in the Midwest. And if you want to Google me, you will figure it out.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:04:44

I have never done that. Actually. It's funny sometimes, like what's called like, potential clients, like in my marketing business. I'll google them or like, fascinating like ran like, just like, if I'm at a business event, but like, I never Google My authors. So maybe Sure, but that's not the point. The point is, I think I respect that not I think I do respect that. And I think that's really good that you're doing that because you want to protect your family. I do have a few questions. So feel free to answer what you're comfortable answering. So you said you woke up at 25? Like you, you are you left the cult? When did you realize you were actually in a cult.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:05:26

So it's really sad and scary to say, but I didn't realize I was in a cult till probably five years after I got out of the cult, right. Like, I didn't recognize that it was what it was right. And much of that is the fear that is instilled in us. And much of that is just the manipulation and the brain wash that I had experienced my entire life. I knew nothing else, like I was born into it. So I didn't, I didn't know anything else to compare it to. So I didn't realize that it was actually a cult until probably five years after being out.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:06:04

And so how, what was it that told your instincts? Like it's time to leave this, like walk us through when you realize it was time to prepare to leave? And how did you how did you leave?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:06:17

Yeah, so that's a fun story. So I was working at a business for the call that all of the income went to the call, I was never paid for the hours. I worked there for the time, you know, everything went to the call. But I had the opportunity to have a computer and I use the intranet, intranet of the early 2000s. And I found my sister who had been separated from the cult for many years. And we began talking and I would use a calling card and I would call her and we began talking and she really expressed sadness not having the in her life and not having her parents in her life, because they were still in the calls. And some of her other siblings were still in and she just had a lot of sadness of being, you know, completely excommunicated, and being alone. And the turning point for me was when I found out she was pregnant, and it was her first child and there was something that clicked inside of me that said, You are not going to go through this pregnancy alone I will move hell and high water to get home to be with you and to go through this pregnancy with you. And that's what I ended up doing is within five days, I have that phone call. I made the plan and and I escaped

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:07:36

so and so it wasn't like in the middle of the night opening a window and like jumping out the third storey.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:07:43

Well, that was pretty close to that actually. Wow, okay, what happened but the you know, and you'll read the full story in in, in our, in our book that we will be publishing here in a few months, but my escape was during a blizzard. And the universe has a way of protecting the crazy and the you know, innocent right and so the universe brought a horrible but a wonderful blizzard. And so I literally walked out the gates of the compound on my two feet without the guards trying to stop me because their windshields were covered with snow. So nobody literally saw me leave. And it was literally one of those things that you can only say was like a God moment or universe like weak moment because I literally walked past the guards and the cars and the gates and walked out. So it should have been climbing out of a window and running through a ditch and all of those things, but the snowstorm just literally cleared the way.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:08:49

So what would have happened if the windshields weren't covered with snow? Like what if like, what would the like what it? What would the exit strategy have been?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:09:00

So I would have had to go the long way which is through the tree lines. And I would have had to walk miles and miles and miles and miles to get around the guards.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:09:12

So you literally you escaped like physically like it was like you woke up one day and last like you actually had to escape?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:09:18

Yes, I actually had to because I lived in the compound. So a lot of people that leave the group can just not come the next weekend but I physically lived in his compound. So it was different for me I had to escape, I would never have been allowed to just walk out the door.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:09:36

Why did you live in his compound?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:09:40

That's also a very long story. But the short story is he chose me at age 18 And I was told by him that I was moving to the compound and my parents delivered me at age 18 Seven days after I graduated high school and I moved into the

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:10:00

That's so hard. Are you? Like what happened? Once you left like did you cut off communication with your family that was still in the cult.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:10:12

So your only option is when you leave as excommunication, they don't have an option to continue to talk to you. But I, it took me a few months, and I finally just showed up on my dad's doorstep. And I basically begged him to just let me have a conversation with him because he was very angry with me. And he said, You know that I had sinned against the Lord by leaving, and I had sinned against, you know, the leader and all the things. And so my dad was still very brainwashed. But something clicked in him that night, and he sat down and had a conversation with me. And I told him all the things that had happened to me over the last eight years, and he just was absolutely dumbfounded. And he was like, This is not what me and mom signed up for, like, I, we had no clue this was going on. And this is not, this isn't what we want for our future. And then that's when they made the decision to leave as well.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:11:06

Wow. Wow. You know, it's just so interesting to me, like the whole they, how people end up in these groups, and then what happens while they're in them, and then what happens when they wake up or when they get out? So when you got out, you went to go help your sister? What was life like for you outside of the compound outside of the call, like, walk us through the first few days were like, like, what was it like for you being in? Like, is it called the real world? Like I have you guys call it?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:11:44

It is, you know, it's a completely new existence, right? Like, everything was different. There was cell phones, and there was social media, and there was internet and all the things that when I went in, there wasn't I'm coming out. And that's just the normal world, right? Like, it was just a lot to take in, it was overwhelming. And, you know, we are so isolated from what's going on in the in the real world, right? When you're inside that you, you don't have perspective until you get out. So what was the first few days like it was overwhelming as hell, it was I stayed in fear of them catching up to me somehow, because I knew that he would send people to try to bring me back. So the first few days were just little fight or flight staying in fight or flight just waiting to be caught. Because I had been caught before. And I've been brought back before. And I left, like, I tried to escape in 2000. And it didn't end well. And it led to, you know, four more years of living house. So, um, you know, I, this time felt different this time, I felt like I would not go back but around if, you know, if they did catch me, I would go down fighting. But, you know, it was it was very scary. And it was a lot of fear and a lot of anxiety and a lot of just, you know, but also I had this, I had this, this like overwhelming peace of knowing, like, you know, I'm I'm doing it, and I'm not going back. And there was a thing that kept repeating in my head. And I kept saying, you know, my success will be my revenge, my success will be my revenge. And where that came from, is he always told me I would amount to nothing on the outside that I would never, I would never have any, you know, anything good if I left, you know, and so I just had this ongoing feeling of No, my success will be my revenge and 19 years later, I'm pretty damn successful. So there's that.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:13:49

Yeah, take that Mr. Cult man. Does he? Is he able to see what you're doing?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:14:00

I hope so. I hope so. Because you know, I am in the position I am to bring love and light to others. And I have forgiven him years ago, and I have I have a, you know, moved through those things. But I would like nothing more for him to see this face and see that I am successful and that I have joy, and that I have light and that I have love, even after all of the things that he did to my body, to my mind to my spirit, and he didn't break me so I went and I would love for him to one day see that? Yeah, well

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:14:41

let's blow up your chapter in the book, put it on a big poster board and mail it to the compound.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:14:48

There you go.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:14:50

That this you are so I don't want to say brave because like to be vulnerable is to be brave and to be brave is to be vulnerable but like I think it is such a gift that you're, you've gotten to a place in your healing, where you're able to share this, because I feel like there's people out there who are in the situation you were in. And maybe it's not even specifically a cult, but, you know, or maybe it is a cause and say, maybe it's just a situation similar they can't get out of, but I can't imagine what else that could be. It could even be a toxic relationship with a partner, you know, or at work, but like, what are some signs that people should look for? To know they should leave that organization, that group that religion, that partnership, that relationship?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:15:38

So there's a lot to unpack from what you just said, right? So, but starting with, you know, everybody has a story, we all have a story, and our greatest pain is our greatest pain. And all of us have have paint have had something, right? So when we're looking for signs or when you're looking for, you know, am I in trouble? Or is this not healthy? The anything that isolates you is unhealthy, right? Anything that controls every aspect of your identity, or the way you dress or the way you eat, or the way that you talk. That is that that's not good, right? So anything that doesn't allow you to be the authentic you who you were created for, and by then, for me, that's, that's not healthy, right? Like, I was I was created perfect and whole and complete. And anything that deviates from that is is not is not good. So if you were meant to be a relationship or religion or whatever, right, like it's, it's, it's all anything that does any of those things is not healthy.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:16:50

What do you wish you knew back then? Yeah, yeah. And that, you know, now, yeah. So

Martha Kartaoui: 00:17:02

what I wish I knew is that the little nine year old girl that lost her innocence was going to be okay. And thinking back to the many years that it took me to heal that little girl, and how many endless hours I've sat with her and how much love I've poured into her, and how much pride I have for her. I, you know, still, I wish I could go back and just let her know that she's going to be okay. And she's going to be more than okay, and she's going to bring love and light to a whole lot of other people.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:17:47

Yeah, wow, that's powerful. That's powerful. When you when you left Did you have a support network of people, other people who left other similar situations or that similar cult.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:18:01

So there were a few that I did not engage with a lot that were from our group that had left but there, my sister had set up a safe house of somebody that we were close to that had left. And I'm forever grateful to her for taking me in. And I have, I have built relationships with several other people that have left the group as well. But the group as a whole, you know, didn't until allow friendships, right? Like he had to be the focal point of everything and every one so you didn't have individual friendships with people, even though you knew them your entire life, it's very hard for people to understand if you haven't had that experience. So getting to know these people that I grew up with on the outside is very different than you would think. Because you would think you should know these people. But you literally know nothing about them. And so it's like, it's creating a new relationship like you would with anybody else. So yes, I've built some of those relationships. And yes, we have shared experiences that strengthen those bonds and and, and you have an understanding an automatic understanding because you have a shared experience. But you know, it's been it's not it's not a it's not a it's not a built in community structure that you would think just because everybody is on a healing journey of their own and everybody's in a different place when they get out right like, and everybody's journey looks very different. So yeah,

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:19:40

I can't even I still I can't even imagine what you went through and what you're, you know, your friends out. Also escaped went through like AI and like knowing that you were a little girl in that situation you are grew up in that like it's so heartbreaking. It is so heartbreaking. thing, what do we do? I have so many questions, but like, we're gonna probably have to wrap this up soon. But what do we do with like, we outside in the real world? Know that, like, see someone they may be getting involved with something that we think is like a cult? Or especially if they have children like what what do we do? How do we how do we help them? How do we save them? How do we protect them.

Martha Kartaoui: 00:20:25

So that is my biggest pain, right? Like, I still have a sister there. And unfortunately, Blair, we cannot save people from their journeys. And so we, aside from, you know, going in kidnapping them and taking them for deprogramming, or whatever, you know, like, there's very little that we can do, other than just love them and support them and be present when they're ready, right, because you cannot speed up somebody's journey. And you cannot convince somebody of something that they can't be convinced of, I can't convince my sister that it's evil, I can't convince my sister that she needs to leave, because I'm the evil one to her, because I'm on the outside. But that with that being said, if my sister or anybody that still there, watches this video and reaches out to me, I will drop everything I'm doing to support them, and to love them, and to hold their hand through this next part of their journey if they're ready to leave, right. But I have come to the understanding in my healing journey, that I cannot rush anybody else's journey. And nobody will be ready to leave the cult until they're ready to leave, just like you're not going to quit smoking until you're ready to quit smoking, you're not going to stop doing drugs until you're ready to stop doing drugs. And so when but what I can offer is when you're ready, I'm here, I'm available, I will drop everything to be there, be present and be your the love and light that you deserve in order to hold your hand into the next part of your journey. Literally, you're

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:22:05

listening to an angel, Martha, you're an angel, and it's just so beautiful, like what you're doing now. And you know, if people want to reach out to you, maybe they want to get out of their situation or they want to work with you now, you know, either as a you know, get a massage, but also are you know, in any other of the other elements that you do. You know, being a life coach and a health coach and spiritual mentor, you literally, you're not someone who just picked up a book and read it like you have real experience. So

Martha Kartaoui: 00:22:38

eventual, yeah. Real.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:22:40

Real. Yeah, we also went to the school of hard knocks,

Martha Kartaoui: 00:22:44

we did, we did and I if if if I if there was a diploma for that I have like a doctorate in hard knocks. But I'm also a certified health and life coach and spiritual mentor. And what that really means is that I help you, my clients to re identify with self, right? And this life, life derails us, we lose who we are, and I help you to kind of re identify, and to refocus, and to re, you know, re engage with your purpose, your passion, who you want to be. And so if you are looking for life, or health care, or spiritual mentor, my business is pick wellness, that's PAC wellness llc.com. That's my website, or you can find me on social media under my name, Martha Kartaoui or pick wellness.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:23:34

All her links will be in the shownotes because you need to connect with her. So one final question. What advice do you have for someone who is thinking of leaving their cult?

Martha Kartaoui: 00:23:51

Wow. And when you ask that, like the thing that that I feel so deeply is my sister, right? Like if my sister is is is thinking about leaving the cult or anybody that I know from my past is thinking about leaving a cult or anybody's thinking about leaving any kind of dangerous situation. All I can say is take a deep breath and one step forward. Because one step forward is how you get into the light, because stuck is one step back. But one step forward is how you move into the light. So I just I urge you to take a deep breath and take that first step. I promise you won't regret it.

Blair Kaplan Venables: 00:24:32

One step forward. I love that. That's such a beautiful piece of advice, and it's so applicable to people in the situation you are in but any really hard situation. Yeah. One step forward. So, so beautiful. Well, thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to happen. Yeah, I'm just so excited to have you in our community and to have you here and to have your story coming out in the second Global Resilience Project book. Yes. And if anyone out there is like, Whoa, I have a story I want to share. I want to come on the podcast I want to be in the book. Reach out to me the show the show notes have the link. We are still accepting authors. And you just need to be a human who've basically survived a challenge, which I could say all of us have because we are the walking wounded. We have all gone through it. Well, actually, no, that's not true at one of my good friends I was with this weekend. We were talking about it she's she has has not gone through. It has not gone through much. And I'm like girl when it's time I got you. I got you. But we are here we are resilient. And the global Resilience Project is a community and safe space where people share stories of resilience. It's a container for big feelings. We are currently collecting stories for our second published a book. We have this podcast, we have merchandise you can go to the global resilience project.com and shop there. They're like dark humor sassy, kind of let's band together be resilient AF type, merchandise branded swag. And you know we are here to help you we can go through life and it'd be painful and feel very lonely. But you are not alone. You have us let us walk alongside you in the darkness. Let us be that lighthouse in the storm. Know that it is okay to not be okay and just remember my friends. You are resilient.